Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

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Rain197
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Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by Rain197 » Feb 25th, '18, 22:31

Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Let's start with KAMIKAZE / DJ NRG :
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On Super Eurobeat Vol.34, the length is 5:45

Now take a look at the vinyl :
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It's 7:00...

Hopefully, this song was released in real extended on パラパラオールスターズ Pres. Super Eurobeat~隠れ名曲!~ with a length of 6:49

Another exemple with T N T / Derreck Simons :
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On Super Eurobeat Vol.45, the length is 5:53 while on the iTunes album SUPER EUROBEAT presents DERRECK SIMONS Special COLLECTION, it's 6:46

Another exemple with Super Eurobeat Vol.34 :
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STRONG BEAT / MEGA NRG MAN is 5:53 while on his iTunes album SUPER EUROBEAT presents MEGA NRG MAN Special COLLECTION Vol.1 it's 7:08 both are Strong Dance Mix

Now the inverted, and still with Mega NRG Man.
On Super Eurobeat Vol.48, TRANSMISSION / MEGA NRG MAN is 5:54 while the same on his iTunes album SUPER EUROBEAT presents MEGA NRG MAN Special COLLECTION Vol.1 is 4:49 and of course, both are Extended Mix

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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by para_rigby » Feb 26th, '18, 02:26

Yeah. I think there's no clear cut definition of an extended when it comes to music. I do think that Avex shortened those 7 minutes down to 5-6 minutes so to place a decent number of songs on each album. That's my only theory on this. And of course, then you have songs that are 3-4 minutes, but still call extended in their own right.

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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by Lebon14 » Feb 26th, '18, 02:33

The problem here is that, even on DIGITAL COMPILATIONS, which have no contraits on length, they are still releasing shorter Edits of songs and passing them off as Extended. That's the issue here.
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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by para_rigby » Feb 26th, '18, 02:51

Lebon14 wrote:
Feb 26th, '18, 02:33
The problem here is that, even on DIGITAL COMPILATIONS, which have no contraits on length, they are still releasing shorter Edits of songs and passing them off as Extended. That's the issue here.
I guess I am wondering how often that actually happens in cases of digital < cd/vinyl.

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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by eXtaticus » Feb 26th, '18, 04:45

In many cases, tracks are actually produced first to radio or SEB length, and then extended after the initial version is finished - so in reality, most "radio edits" are actually the full track, but the "extended versions" are just the same track with some sections duplicated and played again. So you're not really missing much. Frankly, if a track's length is closer to 5:00 than it is to 4:00, then there's really not much to complain about, even if you are looking for "extended" versions.

That said, we've known for years that "Everlasting Dance Trax Super Eurobeat Extended Version" doesn't always necessarily mean that you're getting a full extended cut of each track - rather, it just means "this isn't a non-stop mix".

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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by BBi » Feb 26th, '18, 05:06

In my opinion, song length isn't the issue here.

Instead of focusing on templates like Extended and Radio, an artist should focus on making good songs. It's pretty obvious, but what makes a song is quality over length.

Some songs are great at 3 minutes, some songs are great at 7 minutes, but extended cuts shouldn't be the end all be all of dance music.

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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by alpines » Feb 26th, '18, 12:41

^this

I can understand that you need some mix-in and mix-out parts for mixes (or whatever they are called in the business) but having 2-3 minutes of dull beats or parts repeated over and over and over again then an extended shouldn't be necessarily longer than 5 minutes.

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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by Bore » Feb 26th, '18, 12:49

Shush, you'll wake the extended-lovers! Be weeeevy weeevy quiet.

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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by Crockett » Feb 26th, '18, 15:41

Rain197 wrote:
Feb 25th, '18, 22:31
Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?
Extended is not a term for a specified remix of a specified song.

It just means any version with extra parts that are not necessarily needed to rate a track in radio, but essential in the disco.

Avex Trax was the first publisher which on a wide scale cropped so many songs from 1993.

Before, when the tracklists contained from 8 to maximum 12 titles, it's been almost unnecessary, and these CDs were an obvious stuff in DJs kit.

Besides, every CD compilation had duration 74-76 minutes. I think definitely was easier to cut all too long versions, than make a problem "It will fit or not".

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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by SuperEuroJimmy » Feb 26th, '18, 19:40

I have the feeling that they sometimes take a certain version of a song, cut it to their needs, and release it as such. So that means that if a song called 'Best Eurobeat Song Ever' is produced in an extended fashion by the producing studio, it'll be released as such: 'Best Eurobeat Song Ever (Extended Version)'.
Now, if I were to take that song, called 'Best Eurobeat Song Ever (Extended Version)', and cut it so it fits in the format I'm aiming for, it'll still be called 'Best Eurobeat Song Ever (Extended Version)'. It might be missing the parts that makes it an actual extended version, but the title of the song doesn't change.
For it to make more sense, you could rename the title 'Extended Version' with something else like 'Prime Mix'.

I've seen 'Extended Versions' even on non-stop mixes, and it isn't limited to eurobeat/avex either.

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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by sethreed » Feb 26th, '18, 19:52

I use Extended parts mainly for mixing. It's important.

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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by Lebon14 » Feb 26th, '18, 23:37

eXtaticus wrote:
Feb 26th, '18, 04:45
In many cases, tracks are actually produced first to radio or SEB length, and then extended after the initial version is finished
WTF did I just read. :ew: :ew:

Long to short is easier to do than the other way around. I've never seen this way of doing things... EVER. It's like saying that these vinyl published with Extended Mixes made teh Radio Cuts that appears on the B-Side before they made the A-Side. Like, no. Just no.

---

If you are going to call a mix "Extended Version"; it'd better be the whole thing, otherwise, it's false advertising. If you cut it to have a more "less dull parts that are usually for DJing", then, why not change the mix name? "Prime Ver.", "Long Radio Ver.", or, as I've seen on some Vengaboys Maxi-Singles, "More Airplay Ver.".

What's more troubling is that the length is never consistent on a lot of songs. I mean, when a song is called "Extended Mix", and then there's a 7min version; later cut to 5:30 then 4:40, and they are called the same, I think they shouldn't be all called "Extended Mix". Put the difference between versions. It would fix the issue that Rain (and I) has with these.

Fun Facts:
"Sweet Lover" by Robert Patton appeared on both SEB 34 (6:26) and SEB 35 (5:23)...... and both are "extended volumes"and both called "Extended Mix".
"Hot Girl" by Dr. Money appeared on both Mahara Hi-NRG Revolution Vol. 5 ("Extended Hot Mix") and SEB 31 (No mix name). A few seconds difference.
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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by eXtaticus » Feb 27th, '18, 04:57

Lebon14 wrote:
Feb 26th, '18, 23:37
eXtaticus wrote:
Feb 26th, '18, 04:45
In many cases, tracks are actually produced first to radio or SEB length, and then extended after the initial version is finished
WTF did I just read. :ew: :ew:

Long to short is easier to do than the other way around. I've never seen this way of doing things... EVER. It's like saying that these vinyl published with Extended Mixes made teh Radio Cuts that appears on the B-Side before they made the A-Side. Like, no. Just no.
I mean, if you think about it, songs made specifically for SEB between volumes 064 and 186 never needed to be longer than roughly four minutes. If you know your maximum target length is about 4:00 or so, why would you waste valuable studio time and energy arranging content outside of those bounds when nobody's ever going to hear it anyway? Sure, if you're producing specifically for a 12" vinyl single, then you'll perhaps target the longer version first and then cut - but if you know that your song is unlikely to appear outside of a context in which it needs to be <4:00, then the radio version is the one you'll want to prioritise.

In fact, even when a label independently releases their own compilations digitally, many of the tracks are still radio-length; quite a few tracks on EuroKudos don't run past 4:10, and many that appear as "extended" versions were likely edited after they were finalised and sent to Avex.

Remember that I said "in many cases", not "in all cases"; as BBi implied earlier, these things are often decided on a per-song basis.
Last edited by eXtaticus on Feb 27th, '18, 06:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by Anthony McBazooka » Feb 27th, '18, 06:36

Lebon14 wrote:
Feb 26th, '18, 23:37
eXtaticus wrote:
Feb 26th, '18, 04:45
In many cases, tracks are actually produced first to radio or SEB length, and then extended after the initial version is finished
WTF did I just read. :ew: :ew:

Long to short is easier to do than the other way around. I've never seen this way of doing things... EVER. It's like saying that these vinyl published with Extended Mixes made teh Radio Cuts that appears on the B-Side before they made the A-Side. Like, no. Just no.
But that was common practice in the 80s. Extended versions are called like that because it's exactly what they are –> a version that has been extended from the original version.
And long to short isn't necessarily easier to do. Nowadays it may have changed a bit but in the 80s studio time was expensive so it was easier (and less expensive) to record a shorter version of a song and then have a remixer extend it. Most of the times musicians recorded an album version which is longer than the radio edit (that has been edited from that version) but shorter than the extended version (which often also has a different mixing and mastering because of the 12" 45 RPM format which allows more flexibility and dynamics).
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Re: Why call "Extended" a song which isn't extended ?

Post by Lebon14 » Feb 27th, '18, 08:03

eXtaticus wrote:
Feb 27th, '18, 04:57
I mean, if you think about it, songs made specifically for SEB between volumes 064 and 186 never needed to be longer than roughly four minutes. If you know your maximum target length is about 4:00 or so, why would you waste valuable studio time and energy arranging content outside of those bounds when nobody's ever going to hear it anyway? Sure, if you're producing specifically for a 12" vinyl single, then you'll perhaps target the longer version first and then cut - but if you know that your song is unlikely to appear outside of a context in which it needs to be <4:00, then the radio version is the one you'll want to prioritise.
Most songs released in that time frame had longer versions made, available or not. They were also most likely made in this longer format before being made shorter (either by Avex or the label itself). Now, it's not all case because there was also a time where Hi-NRG Attack had 4min-ish songs. A-Beat-C had their lot of 4min (Grand Prix by Mega NRG Man comes to mind).

And you know as much as I do, when it concerns Eurobeat, it's pretty much long to short. I only saw a very few exemple of the opposite (Disconnected by Hotblade comes to mind).
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