Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

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Re: Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by Markos » Jan 5th, '18, 18:05

Crockett wrote:
Jan 5th, '18, 17:17
Anthony McBazooka wrote:
Jan 5th, '18, 14:24
Does really anyone think that you're gonna have better sales if you annoy people who are potentially interested in the music?
Annoy ? :|

I just heard some parts mixed in the radio show and I know what I can expect, no doubts.

First row of customers doesn't need multiple advertisements, because they are vinyl collectors and lovers of the 80's music, so they are sure in advance it will be good by a specified artist.

Second row of clients indeed must confirm, if the song is worth to buy, even they are almost sure as well.

Third and the last row will order the track due the lack of alternative, possibly they will complain why he didn't put all effort in 4th decade of Eurobeat where the main problem...... is to sell or what to do with the style to get again interest in Japan.
Yeah, I agree its a preview not a free copy for people to copy and call it good.

Third option make me laugh :P

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Re: Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by Crockett » Jan 5th, '18, 19:33

Markos wrote:
Jan 5th, '18, 18:05
Yeah, I agree its a preview not a free copy for people to copy and call it good.

Third option make me laugh :P
In the face of problems that Eurobeat has since many years, the comeback, continuation of 80's trends is very stable niche, deprived of analysis, complaints and guarantees uninterrupted interest. Take a look what artists themselves said about more niche sub-genre than Italo Disco or Eurobeat are, after they released a new album in 2016.

I can't imagine what clamor would it be, if an Eurobeat producer or Avex Trax would tell the same. Perhaps this would scare away people whose habits assume "Listen as long you can get all life things for free and laugh of naive supporters", but I believe if done in a proper moment, that would also warn and encourage loyal listeners before Super Eurobeat was planned to terminate. Of course earlier yet, the music must've been kept attractive. Again, there is no problem with pure sound regarding Italo Disco, 80's new wave.

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Last edited by Crockett on Jan 5th, '18, 22:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by Anthony McBazooka » Jan 5th, '18, 21:57

Yeah, it's probably a very good marketing method to blame your audience, especially buyers. Sorry, but do you really believe that? Do you think it's that easy? No piracy and every musician will automatically earn enough to make a living from their music? Sorry, but it's not. Music marketing is a hard job, and things changed a lot in the last decades. I'm not saying things are good as they are now, but you have no other choice than to either try playing the game or to lose from the beginning. If you decide not to be a part of it, blame the game, but not your fans. If you do that, you may be a great artist, but one with a horrible attitude at the same time. And there is NO excuse for that.
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Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by Crockett » Jan 5th, '18, 22:14

Laserdance team in fact reffered to pirate editions. For me important is just their suggestion that buy legal copies, otherwise no more news appear. They don't blame fans for making bootlegs, only paid attention on problem.

I think the stable position of such revived old dance genres create always certain customers, willing to pay although the times have changed. 200-400 persons never discussing.

In Eurobeat collided so many generations from different worlds already, plus the last publisher isn't a company specjalized in niche music, when Eurobeat has reached exactly this weak status.
Last edited by Crockett on Jan 6th, '18, 10:44, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by Lebon14 » Jan 5th, '18, 23:11

They lost a sale with me again, it's all I can say.
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Re: Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by jeurobeat » Jan 6th, '18, 07:54

I like the composition and vocals. Unfortunately the arrangement sounds a bit like a Laserdance wannabe (don't get me wrong: I think Laserdance is good). It's certainly not bad, but I'd rather see this song produced by Dave Rodgers or Mauro Farina. The release information indicates the existence of a Dave Rodgers Mix, so maybe that will make this song really stand out!

For people complaining about the preview, don't forget this is 80s music. Promotion is also in 80s style, exactly how it was done back then: a FM-radio preview (hence the sound of the limiter and exciter) with stuff included (kind of watermark) to know the source and to prevent home taping. The purpose is to give an impression of the song, so people who listen beyond that stuff know that the song is worth buying. Not to use that recording to playback instead. That's how it was done. As annoying as such a recording may sound to you, it really did encourage to buy great songs: the real thing bought sounded way better than the preview, so it was not only worth buying for supporting the creators, but also for the sound quality and to get the entire song.

The fact that digital distribution previews of today have almost exactly the same quality as the product for sale, is an entirely different approach, which doesn't have to be broadcast through FM radio with possibly bad reception.
Last edited by jeurobeat on Jan 6th, '18, 08:08, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by jeurobeat » Jan 6th, '18, 08:02

Crockett wrote:
Jan 5th, '18, 22:14
Laserdance team in fact reffered to pirate editions. For me important is just their suggestion that buy legal copies, otherwise no more news appear. They don't blame fans for making bootlegs, only paid attention on problem.
I didn't want to meddle in a discussion like this at first, but I really do not read any negativity towards audience and buyers. It is just a plead to buy from the true source. Buying from an illegal source won't help anyone. That's all! I can't understand how this quote could be explained otherwise.

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Re: Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by Anthony McBazooka » Jan 6th, '18, 12:41

jeurobeat wrote:
Jan 6th, '18, 07:54
For people complaining about the preview, don't forget this is 80s music. Promotion is also in 80s style, exactly how it was done back then: a FM-radio preview (hence the sound of the limiter and exciter) with stuff included (kind of watermark) to know the source and to prevent home taping. The purpose is to give an impression of the song, so people who listen beyond that stuff know that the song is worth buying. Not to use that recording to playback instead. That's how it was done. As annoying as such a recording may sound to you, it really did encourage to buy great songs: the real thing bought sounded way better than the preview, so it was not only worth buying for supporting the creators, but also for the sound quality and to get the entire song.
Well, I see, you are looking for justifications. Even if the marketing completely fails, you would still justify it. I don't think it's worth continuing this discussion.
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Re: Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by jeurobeat » Jan 6th, '18, 14:33

Anthony McBazooka wrote:
Jan 6th, '18, 12:41
Well, I see, you are looking for justifications. Even if the marketing completely fails, you would still justify it. I don't think it's worth continuing this discussion.
I'm not looking for justifications, I just explained how it worked and what they apparently do now.
Last edited by jeurobeat on Jan 6th, '18, 14:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by M2-EB » Jan 6th, '18, 14:34

jeurobeat wrote:
Jan 6th, '18, 07:54
...
So they shouldn't be marketing online at all. No YouTube or internet in the 80s, as far as I know. We won't go back to that time, artists need to get over it, labels need to get over it.

Play the game or get out.

It is that simple.
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Re: Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by jeurobeat » Jan 6th, '18, 14:43

M2-EB wrote:
Jan 6th, '18, 14:34
So they shouldn't be marketing online at all. No YouTube or internet in the 80s, as far as I know. We won't go back to that time, artists need to get over it, labels need to get over it.

Play the game or get out.

It is that simple.
:grin: This would make me laugh, if it weren't so sad. Always the same here: artists should this, labels should do that. Maybe you should become an artist, start a label, and do all this. We'll see how that works out.

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Re: Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by M2-EB » Jan 6th, '18, 15:09

jeurobeat wrote:
Jan 6th, '18, 14:43
:grin: This would make me laugh, if it weren't so sad. Always the same here: artists should this, labels should do that. Maybe you should become an artist, start a label, and do all this. We'll see how that works out.
Because it's true? Because that is how things work, as sad as it may be? Unless I'm wrong but please tell me where and how I'm wrong because I fail in seeing it. I won't do those things because I know the chances of it working are small, near impossible, short term. I'd rather have a "regular" job and not starve. It's common sense. These artists and labels are stuck in the past, with backward marketing, anti-sharing policy, etc… And that only proves my point. I wouldn't want to be a pop artist too, that's one of the best ways of working with music nowadays. Eurobeat, Italo Disco and the likes are not pop but the whole synth/old school movement is getting popular again thanks to internet.

While a few artists with enormous egos are stuck with old man's mindset, some producers started doing their own thing, uploading their music on streaming for free, investing in marketing and being out there, not complaining about this or that, or blaming their failure on others.

You want to blame something? Blame the game, not the people.
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Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by Crockett » Jan 6th, '18, 15:12

Anthony McBazooka wrote:
Jan 5th, '18, 21:57
Music marketing is a hard job
About 15 or more years ago the european market has been flooded russian bootleg CDs.

You guys confused the case of Eurobeat on YouTube with serious scammers who manufactured hard to recognize counterfeits, established garage labels only to earn illegally money, simultaneously making competition for ZYX Music Germany !


Now Flashback Records, I Venti D'Azzurro Records are much focused on vinyl singles, but ZYX still produces reissues of the old compilations, albums. Very rarely, like Laserdance, someone releases full brand new CD.

Russian bootleg labels aren't anymore so active, however they still exist and disturb !

Thus, what was wrong with the statement of Laserdance if the last album immediately got a pirate version ?

Should they say ? "Even we can barely sell 200 copies, we are stupid and we will spend our private money for new music instead of life, and you fans please choose whatever you want, our legal CD or russian fake".

These are traditional artists, not interested any progress and trends, so they must care only of real sale and support.

Besides, you won't put needlessly great effort, fortune to promote niche genre on a large scale, where the audience is willing to order all new stuff just in view of passion.

Producers of Eurobeat in opposite to Italo Disco, 80's crew lost creativity and ideas, moving color diagrams in Logic Pro, composing by eyes not ears, repeating about compressing, layering and how they are advanced... Then marketing is guilty, became an excuse. Yes, Avex Trax didn't do enough recently, but Max Matsuura isn't a wizard who can boost every shit with the same result during 30 years... You assume brutal promotion that people buy anyway the music they simply dislike.
Last edited by Crockett on Jan 6th, '18, 17:30, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by Lebon14 » Jan 6th, '18, 15:21

Preach it, M2-EB. Preach it.
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Re: News of Dave Rodgers music

Post by Anthony McBazooka » Jan 6th, '18, 20:31

Crockett wrote:
Jan 6th, '18, 15:12
Thus, what was wrong with the statement of Laserdance if the last album immediately got a pirate version ?

Should they say ? "Even we can barely sell 200 copies, we are stupid and we will spend our private money for new music instead of life, and you fans please choose whatever you want, our legal CD or russian fake".

These are traditional artists, not interested any progress and trends, so they must care only of real sale and support.

Besides, you won't put needlessly great effort, fortune to promote niche genre on a large scale, where the audience is willing to order all new stuff just in view of passion.

Producers of Eurobeat in opposite to Italo Disco, 80's crew lost creativity and ideas, moving color diagrams in Logic Pro, composing by eyes not ears, repeating about compressing, layering and how they are advanced... Then marketing is guilty, became an excuse. Yes, Avex Trax didn't do enough recently, but Max Matsuura isn't a wizard who can boost every shit with the same result during 30 years... You assume brutal promotion that people buy anyway the music they simply dislike.
If they can barely sell 200 copies anyway, then there is something else terribly wrong, not piracy. If it is such a niche that you can't make a living from the music, not even cover the productions costs, well, then you have to deal with it anyway.
BUT that is a lame excuse. We're living in times where you can reach a not-so-small audience for every niche, because not only stuff is available on the internet but also the audience. And it is available through direct connection. You will need to spend some time to learn about how the algorithms of several social media work and for some you will need to make some financial investments as well. But if you didn't even try, don't complain about lack of results.
Take Facebook for example, there is an audience for everything on Facebook. No exceptions. But no one will do the dirty job for you to reach out for the people, even if you pay for ads, you have to place you ads in an intelligent way of course. Now tell me, how many Eurobeat artists did that? Did AVEX do it? Did they do anything to reach an international audience and offered them a way to connect, be informed, and get access to purchasable content? The answer is simply no.
But I can show you successful musicians who did it, and many of them play niche genres too.

If an artist doesn't want to do this from the beginning, it's okay. I would never blame anyone for that. But they should also not blame their audience or piracy for their own lack of success.

And honestly, do you think 80s and Italo Disco musicians nowadays don't use the same tools for music production? No one has a Synclavier or CMI in their living room. LOL
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