Super Eurobeat 221 (News in page 1!)

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#Infinity
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Post by #Infinity » Feb 28th, '13, 02:03

SCP has experimented with commercial themes as early as back when Pamsy and Van T.K. first took the spotlight. The difference now is that the majority of their experimental tracks aren't employed with any of the same impact or melodic complexity that elevated their earlier works. Occasionally, they'll pull off a successful step in a new direction (I Won't Fall Apart and Fallin' in Love Again being the prime examples of recent years for me personally), but I'm just no longer feeling the same magic touch that endeared me to the label back in 2006. The only "evolution" the label has experimented in the past few years is a steady decline in quality.
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Post by Bore » Feb 28th, '13, 02:11

It's all in the eye of the beholder. Can't argue about taste in the end anyways. I too fail to understand the complaints about lack of evolution or decline in quality. I've strongly felt that during the past few years (2012 not included), the genre has been picking up all around. The variety the labels offer is much more wide than ever before. Naturally can't please everyone with the wide spectrum of tracks, but you can pick the cherries from the top either way.

And as for SCP, I do feel they have gotten to a much better place lately. The introduction of new vocalists, new sounding paths, experiementing with iTunes releases, multiple versions of songs, promotion outside of the Avex norm and being in contact with the fans. Lots of things to keep things going. It's not just about the songs that are on SEB but all of the extra included. What other labels even offer multiple versions of songs like they do?

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Post by drnrg » Mar 10th, '13, 04:03

Questoion guys/gals?

Any of you come across the Extended mp3s of SCP's songs featured on this cd that you might wanna trade or something?

I know they are out there cuz I have aquired them in the past for Hotblade and Lou Master .

Bamboo Bimbo, Scream Team and An-G are the ones that interest me.

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Post by the_ditz » Mar 10th, '13, 11:01

drnrg wrote:Questoion guys/gals?

Any of you come across the Extended mp3s of SCP's songs featured on this cd that you might wanna trade or something?

I know they are out there cuz I have aquired them in the past for Hotblade and Lou Master .

Bamboo Bimbo, Scream Team and An-G are the ones that interest me.
You acquired them for Hotblade & Lou Master because they were released in a compilation on iTunes.

SCP doesn't always release extendeds, and they may not even bother creating these extended versions. A song should be taken as it is - it doesn't need to have extended breaks and elements to make it somehow better or more worthy. Not having a go or anything, but I still don't get why you can't just accept that the songs are written in a certain way that just turns out to be a so-called "edit". The fact is - it's highly possible that it isn't an edit at all... it's just the song!

The only way we can know is if someone can ask one of the SCP staff. ;)

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Post by Darkholme » Mar 10th, '13, 14:40

Extendeds aren't needed, no. I still see them as the ultimate version of the song, it's longer, more varied and to me it feels like the complete experience. It gives room for maybe another breakdown, chorus, muted parts and other kinds of creative mixing.

I know I'll always have the extended 5-7min version over a 3-4min one. Pretty much every song before SEB64 was an extended, and it was awesome :D

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Post by eXtaticus » Mar 10th, '13, 16:50

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Last edited by eXtaticus on Dec 19th, '17, 22:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Lebon14 » Mar 10th, '13, 23:34

I'm the extended guy too. I'm in the same league as drnrg on this one. Longer instrumental breaks can offer quite the tasty bits too. Guitar solos and original melodies. I know that, sometimes, they only like to copy & paste. But remember "Mad Desire" by Stephy Martini of SEB172? The edit totally destroyed the extended original. Edits, imo, destroys the essence of the track. If the track was written to be 5:45, let it be 5:45, not 4min.
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Post by the_ditz » Mar 11th, '13, 00:10

Lebon14 wrote:I'm the extended guy too. I'm in the same league as drnrg on this one. Longer instrumental breaks can offer quite the tasty bits too. Guitar solos and original melodies. I know that, sometimes, they only like to copy & paste. But remember "Mad Desire" by Stephy Martini of SEB172? The edit totally destroyed the extended original. Edits, imo, destroys the essence of the track. If the track was written to be 5:45, let it be 5:45, not 4min.
But that's the whole point I'm making. I believe that SCP write all if not the vast majority of their tracks to be the length they are on SEB. So it's not an edit - it's the whole song you're hearing!

Of course, I can't know this for sure, but I'd be surprised if those extended versions for Disconnected and Up and Dance, Up and Go were the norm...

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Post by Jay » Mar 11th, '13, 00:55

Darkholme wrote:Extendeds aren't needed, no. I still see them as the ultimate version of the song, it's longer, more varied and to me it feels like the complete experience. It gives room for maybe another breakdown, chorus, muted parts and other kinds of creative mixing.
I fail to see how the majority of extendeds are 'more varied' in comparison to their edits. Very rarely are extendeds utilised in any meaningful or creative way. In fact, most labels merely drag their extendeds out by repeating the structure of the song over and over, which is really, really lazy and adds nothing new whatsoever. If you call that 'more varied' then you must have abysmally low standards of creativity.

There are some notable exceptions however. 'Mad Desire' by Stephy Martini was butchered in the edit and sounds amazing in extended format. There's also a song on SEB that has a guitar solo in the extended version that was excluded in the edit, but I can't remember which one (a Dave Rodgers song maybe). The point is, though, that these types of extendeds are few and far between and you really need to dig deep to name extendeds that break the repeating structure format.

Edit: Only realised Lebon14 mentioned 'Mad Desire' too, heh.
the_ditz wrote:But that's the whole point I'm making. I believe that SCP write all if not the vast majority of their tracks to be the length they are on SEB. So it's not an edit - it's the whole song you're hearing!
I've been telling drnrg this for years and he still doesn't get it. :P

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Post by para_rigby » Mar 11th, '13, 02:11

Jay wrote:
Darkholme wrote:Extendeds aren't needed, no. I still see them as the ultimate version of the song, it's longer, more varied and to me it feels like the complete experience. It gives room for maybe another breakdown, chorus, muted parts and other kinds of creative mixing.
I fail to see how the majority of extendeds are 'more varied' in comparison to their edits. Very rarely are extendeds utilised in any meaningful or creative way. In fact, most labels merely drag their extendeds out by repeating the structure of the song over and over, which is really, really lazy and adds nothing new whatsoever. If you call that 'more varied' then you must have abysmally low standards of creativity.

There are some notable exceptions however. 'Mad Desire' by Stephy Martini was butchered in the edit and sounds amazing in extended format. There's also a song on SEB that has a guitar solo in the extended version that was excluded in the edit, but I can't remember which one (a Dave Rodgers song maybe). The point is, though, that these types of extendeds are few and far between and you really need to dig deep to name extendeds that break the repeating structure format.

Edit: Only realised Lebon14 mentioned 'Mad Desire' too, heh.
the_ditz wrote:But that's the whole point I'm making. I believe that SCP write all if not the vast majority of their tracks to be the length they are on SEB. So it's not an edit - it's the whole song you're hearing!
I've been telling drnrg this for years and he still doesn't get it. :P
Pilot Is The Hero has the delicious guitar solo in the extend, but not on the edit. Maybe that was he one you were thinking of?

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Post by drnrg » Mar 11th, '13, 07:23

Jeez, don't have a cow guys. It was just a question to see if maybe there was something out there I was missing, but since this question started an uprise; I'm gonna rant and rave about why I prefer the extendeds too. It's only fair. 8)


Clearly you guys don't pay attention to extras in the extended versions of songs with as much enthusiasm as I do. It's not at all just cut and paste. To say that shows no regard for the label's creativaty what so ever.It depends if the label knows what to do with the TIME limit of 5-6. I'm not saying SCPs edits are terrible. I'm saying that when they want, they can do some amazing extended versions of thier songs. I always use that Hotblade song as an example, because it's anything ,but cut and paste. I have quite a few SCP extendeds and they do not just do cut and paste. I hear the label put thier heart into thier extendeds when they want to and the middle break gives them that freedom.

and don't tell me most of you prefer SEB edits, because I rememebr most; if not all of you, pratically went dire when DELTA released all thier songs in extended version on those Eurobeat master series. (the real versions of the songs. Same thing happened with HRG Attack when released in full on Juno.


Another sugestion would be for the AVEX to release the Instrumental versions of the songs. Remeber like they did with SEB 105? I did my own tasty extendeds that way too. I don't care how. I just wanna satisfy my need for extended versions. and even I try hard to sway away from just cut and paste jobs.

Anyway, contrary to what some of you think; I beleive the extended version is the real version of a song. That is why the vinyl 12 would always have that "radio version" for promotional purpose. This practice goes back beyond the 80's. Just listen to a TIME "radio" edit on one of thier vinyls and tell me you still prefer that to the extended. You guys do remeber when SEB went from Extended to edits? It was around the mid 60's. Songs like Toy Boy, Not This TIME and Din Dan Don sounded totally raped from thier essence. They sounded like trailers of the actual songs.

Anyway, in the end; my desire for extended comes naturally from the fact that I grew up in the vinyl era. I love the mixing of vinyls ect... If the vinyls were still in fasion; I would probobly be spending a small fortune on AVEX vinyls as well as the cds.

eXtaticus Honestly, I feel that Avex should specify an absolute maximum of 4:59 for all songs on SEB, and have 16 tracks on each album

The first part will give me nitemares tonight , not because of the TIME limit, but because that gives AVEX even more control over the labels creative freedom. :( I say "nay" to that.

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Post by Lebon14 » Mar 11th, '13, 08:42

the_ditz wrote:
Lebon14 wrote:I'm the extended guy too. I'm in the same league as drnrg on this one. Longer instrumental breaks can offer quite the tasty bits too. Guitar solos and original melodies. I know that, sometimes, they only like to copy & paste. But remember "Mad Desire" by Stephy Martini of SEB172? The edit totally destroyed the extended original. Edits, imo, destroys the essence of the track. If the track was written to be 5:45, let it be 5:45, not 4min.
But that's the whole point I'm making. I believe that SCP write all if not the vast majority of their tracks to be the length they are on SEB. So it's not an edit - it's the whole song you're hearing!

Of course, I can't know this for sure, but I'd be surprised if those extended versions for Disconnected and Up and Dance, Up and Go were the norm...
No, There's like no meat. The song is raw at the four minutes mark. Sometimes, it's that "unnecessary" part you tell that can make the song more memorable. It may be more copy & paste, but at the same time, makes you hooked, it makes you enjoy the song more before having to loop it up.

Oh and, just to say, drnrg, above, explained it better than me.
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Post by Darkholme » Mar 11th, '13, 09:14

Might be totally off here, but even if the extended version of a track that was originally 4 minutes is bad, the meat of the song is still there. A song cut down from 6 minutes down to 4 will have lost something in the process.

In other news, the 12"'s for Love & Money, a few Kevin Johnson songs and Crazy For You (Pizza Girl) all arrived today in their extended glory. Time to buy a record player :grin:

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Post by Jay » Mar 11th, '13, 11:54

drnrg wrote:Clearly you guys don't pay attention to extras in the extended versions of songs with as much enthusiasm as I do. It's not at all just cut and paste. To say that shows no regard for the label's creativaty what so ever.It depends if the label knows what to do with the TIME limit of 5-6.
That bolded statement of yours shows you accept the premise of my last post that not every label knows what to do with the added time, otherwise you wouldn't have said: "it depends if the label..."

Unfortunately, many labels (read: not all labels) don't have a clue about what to do with a 5-6 minute extended anymore than to drag it out. Take HRG, for example. HRG's extendeds were far more varied back in the day, but just about every extended of theirs from the 170s onwards have been cut-and-paste jobs. Coincidentally, that was about the same time I began losing interest in HRG.

I can offer you a list of those extendeds, if you're interested.
drnrg wrote:and don't tell me most of you prefer SEB edits, because I rememebr most; if not all of you, pratically went dire when DELTA released all thier songs in extended version on those Eurobeat master series. (the real versions of the songs. Same thing happened with HRG Attack when released in full on Juno.
I've always preferred edits over extendeds, generally speaking. In fact, I remember posting all the way back when SEB187 was released that I didn't enjoy the change in format and preferred having 18 new songs. I can find the post for you if you wish.

The only HRG extendeds I've ever been crazy about were the ones released in non-stop format only or unreleased all together. I have never purchased an HRG extended already available as an edit since I feel that HRG have the most "lazy" extendeds coming out of any label. As for Delta, I've always believed they have the most interesting extendeds (particularly Newfield's, most of his were loaded with creative ideas), so that's why I've purchased many of his.
Lebon14 wrote:Sometimes, it's that "unnecessary" part you tell that can make the song more memorable. It may be more copy & paste, but at the same time, makes you hooked, it makes you enjoy the song more before having to loop it up.
That isn't what an extended should be for though. If all you care about is the hook factor and not having to loop it back to the beginning, you might as well just download Audacity and make a 3-4 hour eurobeat song by copy-and-pasting its structure over and over. Not hard.

My mantra for eurobeat extendeds is this: if you're going to add more time to a production, at least do something interesting with it. If you have nothing new to add to the meat of the song, you're better off leaving it at 3-4 minutes.

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Post by the_ditz » Mar 11th, '13, 19:52

Jay wrote:My mantra for eurobeat extendeds is this: if you're going to add more time to a production, at least do something interesting with it. If you have nothing new to add to the meat of the song, you're better off leaving it at 3-4 minutes.
This is exactly how I feel. For me, the SCP songs (once again, you cannot say that the tracks that feature on SEB are "SEB edits" until we speak with the production team and they confirm the existence of extended versions) generally always sound well-rounded and complete without the need for any padding etc. Of course, if the extended hides a sick guitar solo or new verses, then I'd be perfectly happy to discover them. I just think it's wrong for people to discount or mark-down the songs simply based on their duration ;)

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