SCP's Eurobeat Kudos Series

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Rain197
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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by Rain197 » Feb 9th, '18, 17:17

sethreed wrote:
Feb 9th, '18, 17:12
B Gone / Cypher Extended on Mora but it was removed in 2016 I think. Extended on the old musico too.
Big On Emotion / Lisa Lion is on vinyl too.

Just clarifying some of these.
As I said : easy to buy right now :)

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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by Lebon14 » Feb 9th, '18, 19:20

Rain197 wrote:
Feb 9th, '18, 17:17
sethreed wrote:
Feb 9th, '18, 17:12
B Gone / Cypher Extended on Mora but it was removed in 2016 I think. Extended on the old musico too.
Big On Emotion / Lisa Lion is on vinyl too.

Just clarifying some of these.
As I said : easy to buy right now :)
Most of these option is JAPAN ONLY. It's not "easy". "Easy", in my book", is when you can just go in and buy from your country and your country's credit cards without using work around such as VPNs, proxies and forwarders.

EDIT: Oh and, language barrier too...
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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by SuperEuroJimmy » Feb 9th, '18, 19:49

It might be a release for 'worldwide except Asia'. Didn't they do that before?

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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by Rain197 » Feb 9th, '18, 20:01

EuroKudos aren't available in Japan (at least on iTunes).
I will do a guide on how to buy on recochoku.

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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by Lebon14 » Feb 9th, '18, 21:16

Again, going through hoops to gain access to content is not exactly legal, law-wise, even if the end product is legal in the originating country. It's like breaking DRM; you can do it easily but it doesn't mean it's legal by the laws of your country to do it. This is why, to the exception of the Collections on iTunes, that I have NOT taken (and you shouldn't either) Japanese digital stores into account.
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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by eXtaticus » Feb 12th, '18, 10:29

xiao wrote:
Feb 9th, '18, 12:51
Anthony McBazooka wrote:
Feb 9th, '18, 08:14
No, I'm pretty sure it's a technical thing and has to do with the level of mastering applied to the song already.
so .. does that mean SCP'll likely release some of those songs in their original 24-bit pulse code modulated recording .. digitally :o ??
No, they'll be CD quality. This is the picture they posted:

Image

^That's DAT, or Digital Audio Tape. It's an old Sony-produced format which, as the name would suggest, records digital audio to tape - with a depth of 16-bit, at either 32, 44.1, or 48KHz. And because the audio was created with the intention of CD distribution, SCP would have used 44.1KHz so that no sample rate conversion would have been necessary during mastering.

So if they get distributed in a lossless format (here's hoping), you're looking at CD quality - which is absolutely fine by me. Seeing as those tapes have "mix" written on them, I'm guessing that they're the final mixdowns and not the mastered versions, meaning that they'll have to be mastered again before release - which is great news, because it means uniformity between each song in SCP's back-catalog, as well as a new way of listening to those old tracks. Can't wait to hear them! :grin:

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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by Lebon14 » Feb 12th, '18, 21:26

eXtaticus wrote:
Feb 12th, '18, 10:29
I'm guessing that they're the final mixdowns and not the mastered versions, meaning that they'll have to be mastered again before release - which is great news, because it means uniformity between each song in SCP's back-catalog, as well as a new way of listening to those old tracks. Can't wait to hear them! :grin:
Remastering is the evil of modern music. M2-EB is known, afaik, to have headaches when listening to the brickwalls of today's music. Original Mixdown Mastering >>>>>>>>> Remastered

I want to see this, not this.

My opinion of "your good mastering" hasn't changed in the slightest. You produce brickwalls that is louder than everything on SEB these days; you might as well compare your mastering to Asia's Current Distortion Days *coughcoughtokyotomilanoallaroundtheworldcoughcough*. And this opinion won't change; no matter how much "Mastering Course I Took" you try to shove me down my throat.

I AM AGAINST LOUDNESS WAR.
BRING VINYL MASTERING TO DIGITAL DOWNLOADS AND CDs.
SAVE OUR EARS, NOT THE WALLS.
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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by magiblot » Feb 12th, '18, 21:57

You could share that concern with Stefano.

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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by Lebon14 » Feb 12th, '18, 23:51

Good idea.
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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by Anthony McBazooka » Feb 13th, '18, 07:12

Lebon14 wrote:
Feb 12th, '18, 21:26
My opinion of "your good mastering" hasn't changed in the slightest. You produce brickwalls that is louder than everything on SEB these days; you might as well compare your mastering to Asia's Current Distortion Days *coughcoughtokyotomilanoallaroundtheworldcoughcough*. And this opinion won't change; no matter how much "Mastering Course I Took" you try to shove me down my throat.
Come on, Asia is cleaner than most other labels. There is more to a good mastering than just loudness which is the way you approach loudness. You can simply apply some hard brickwall limiter and even distortion to get it loud or you can prepare loudness in the mix already and with that you can get pretty loud songs without any artefacts like distortion.
Asia use a lot of modern production techniques to achieve a good loud sound while most labels use none of those, and even though they might be 1-2 db RMS less than Asia, they sound worse (if you go by the ears and not by the eyes only). They still don't even care about the length of the kick drums creating an all moody low end.

I'm basically with you, the loudness war isn't a great thing (except for a few genres where it has a place as part of the artistic expression) but still there is more to it than simply loud=evil / dynamic=good. And if you approach a mastering engineer, who does this on a daily base, with half-knowledge, then you should consider that you might sound to them like one of those adolescent know-it-alls who just discovered a thing and think they know better than the rest of the world and have to tell everyone.

Also you can't generalise remasters, there are different approaches to remastering. Listen to the remasters of Led Zeppelin records, they aren't remastered to be loud, but to sound cleaner and more transparent. The same goes for Manowar's silver editions, the only difference to the original masters is that they don't hurt when you listen to them on headphones because they removed some annoying harsh frequencies.

Vinyl mastering is limited to having no stereo bass and huge losses of dynamics in the high frequencies because of some physical limitations which you don't have on digital audio files. Also the dynamic range of vinyl is much more limited than that of a 16 bit audio file. If any format benefits from loud mastering, it's vinyl.
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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by Lebon14 » Feb 13th, '18, 21:42

This limited dynamic range is what defines vinyl. It needs creative mastering to sound good. If you would dump a digital mastering on vinyl (ie. today "loud"), it would sound awful.

"Vinyl mastering is limited to having no stereo bass and huge losses of dynamics"

This is why you need an amp to listen to vinyls. Once you do, it sounds much better. At the same time, an amp, like its name implies, amplifies the audio to its desired listening level (bass, highs, etc...). Also, turning the volume knob up and down is the only GOOD way to enjoy music without the sacrifice of dynamic range loss. Another advantage of vinyl is... the natural sound wave. Digital can imitate a sound wave; but it'll still look like stairs up-close. So, a lot of enthusiasts love vinyl for the "warmth" of the sound.

Of course, when transfering to digital from analogue, if you don't amp the sound... it'll sound really tin. That's why a good transfer has a lot of professional material behind. But I digress.

"Listen to the remasters of Led Zeppelin records, they aren't remastered to be loud, but to sound cleaner and more transparent."

Nice generalization. However, I know what you mean: there ARE GOOD remasters that aims for to the true audiophiles that don't sacrifies dynamic range while "fixing" the sound. Any classics bands have them. However, like any other bands, Led Zeppelin DO have "public remasters" that are as loud as the next thing for the sake for being loud then pass it as a "remaster". I wish that's the "good" kind of remasters we would be getting but, I'm not getting my hopes up.

I know that electronic music needs less dynamic range to sound good to, say, any kind of rock (drums lose their punch with loss of dynamic range).

"Come on, Asia is cleaner than most other labels. There is more to a good mastering than just loudness which is the way you approach loudness. You can simply apply some hard brickwall limiter and even distortion to get it loud or you can prepare loudness in the mix already and with that you can get pretty loud songs without any artefacts like distortion."

I completely disagree. With my dedicated sound card and Audio-Technica ATH-M50x, a lot of Asia stuff just distorts. The song below is probably the best exemple of bad mastering all around from Asia:

Code: Select all

DR     Max Peak     RMS       Length  Title
DR3    -3.00 dB    -6.81 dB    4:07   11-Tokyo To Milano (All Around The World)
The song is so loud compared to the others, that Avex decided to apply a -3db normalization on the track and it STILL sounds way louder than the rest of SEB 246. The average of the rest of the track is DR6. Oh, and, The Flame Of Love, has a DR5 rating. But the bassdrums still distort quite heavily in places.

Whole thing here: https://pastebin.com/quRaA4iU
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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by Anthony McBazooka » Feb 14th, '18, 21:52

Lebon14 wrote:
Feb 13th, '18, 21:42
This limited dynamic range is what defines vinyl. It needs creative mastering to sound good. If you would dump a digital mastering on vinyl (ie. today "loud"), it would sound awful.

"Vinyl mastering is limited to having no stereo bass and huge losses of dynamics"

This is why you need an amp to listen to vinyls. Once you do, it sounds much better. At the same time, an amp, like its name implies, amplifies the audio to its desired listening level (bass, highs, etc...). Also, turning the volume knob up and down is the only GOOD way to enjoy music without the sacrifice of dynamic range loss. Another advantage of vinyl is... the natural sound wave. Digital can imitate a sound wave; but it'll still look like stairs up-close. So, a lot of enthusiasts love vinyl for the "warmth" of the sound.
I do prefer vinyl, too (except for classical or other extremely dynamic music). I think I once explained either here or in the Initial D World forums why 16bit 44.1 kHz means you can display frequencies up to 22.05 kHz only theoretically but practically it doesn't work that way. I just wanted to point out that vinyl has its own limitations, especially when it comes to dynamics.

"Listen to the remasters of Led Zeppelin records, they aren't remastered to be loud, but to sound cleaner and more transparent."
Nice generalization.
It wasn't a generalisation, just an example for why you shouldn't generalise remasters.
I know that electronic music needs less dynamic range to sound good to, say, any kind of rock (drums lose their punch with loss of dynamic range).
Yeah, that's a reason why I can't listen to most modern Metal records, those fast doublebassdrums with that loud mastering sound like nothing but mud. The retail edition of Manowar's The Lord of Steel though is an example for how to do it right. Yes, the loudest band on earth makes dynamic masterings. :D But as Joey DeMaio said, to be the loudest band on earth (which refers to peak volumes on live concerts and not loudness on their mastering) you need to have the best sound as well otherwise it would just hurt your ears.
I completely disagree. With my dedicated sound card and Audio-Technica ATH-M50x, a lot of Asia stuff just distorts. The song below is probably the best exemple of bad mastering all around from Asia:

Code: Select all

DR     Max Peak     RMS       Length  Title
DR3    -3.00 dB    -6.81 dB    4:07   11-Tokyo To Milano (All Around The World)
The song is so loud compared to the others, that Avex decided to apply a -3db normalization on the track and it STILL sounds way louder than the rest of SEB 246. The average of the rest of the track is DR6. Oh, and, The Flame Of Love, has a DR5 rating. But the bassdrums still distort quite heavily in places.

Whole thing here: https://pastebin.com/quRaA4iU
So the job of Avex' mastering engineer is simply to normalise songs that have been mastered by different studios? Wow, that sounds … erm … pretty non-professional. ^^"
I just checked that song. It sounds shit, you're right, but it seems rather untypical for Asia, as if something went wrong. Sadly I don't have the Junodownload version for comparison.

For my part I will master my future releases to -14db LUFS like I already do with my Objet de Plaisir project. Now that all important media platforms like YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, etc. normalise too loud songs anyway, there is absolutely no sense in making loud masters.
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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by Lebon14 » Feb 15th, '18, 03:31

Anthony McBazooka wrote:
Feb 14th, '18, 21:52
I just checked that song. It sounds shit, you're right, but it seems rather untypical for Asia, as if something went wrong. Sadly I don't have the Junodownload version for comparison.
Unfortunately, it has been going on for a while now; "Diabolik" by Diabolik has some distortion too and it's a while ago; it just got worse with time. As for the Junodownload version, I think somebody in, either the SEB 246 thread or the "Asia on Junodownload" thread, reported that it was just as loud. I think, that Avex tried to normalize the song so it would sound as loud as the other track by applying the normalization. I think the Junodownlaod version is just the same but without the normalization and will give the same DR results. When I think remaster, I think Metal Mastering which is really awful and that's why I'm hammering the message I'm hammering now.
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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by Anthony McBazooka » Feb 15th, '18, 07:35

It reminded me of the Hung Up cover by Tipsy & Tipsy which also had the same kind of distortion but I thought they got rid of it in the newer songs. Guess I was wrong.
Image

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Re: [Rumor] SCP to release back catalog? (Facebook posts)

Post by sethreed » Feb 15th, '18, 19:40

That is exactly my main concern about "remastering".
I don't want any hi-freq/low bass sounds blowing up my ears.

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